Conversation Series Fall 2025 Sofa Issues
Stories & Melodies in the School in the Sky
Domenic Toliver in Conversation with Frank Cobb, Meta 4(Sadie), Duane (Casper) and Gwen Hoeffgen
“Truth is, we aren’t out to hurt you, you act like we’re hurting you when you’re really hurting us.’”
I’ve always believed the best moments in my work happen when I’m not trying to make anything at all, when people just start talking and the room shifts. This is just a piece of that from a day at Street Roots doing our weekly photography hangouts with Frank, Duane, Joan, Sadie and everyone drifting in and out. That day Gwen and I were there to help folks make photo books with photos taken in previous hangouts. The books quickly became secondary to the stories: a harmonica origin story no one will ever know the truth of, Spider-Man facts, bad puns and poetry. I chose this conversation because it captures exactly what I love about the work. The way people build meaning together without even noticing, the way laughter and memory and small disagreements become their own kind of art. The way they move through the workshop, joking, disagreeing, teaching each other, improvising, it all reflects the knowledge they carry with them. It reminds me why I keep showing up: not just for the photos, but for the people who bring them to life, and quite frankly that’s it.
Interlude: Spur of the moment– Frank whipped out a harmonica from his jacket pocket, a childish smirk on his face, he shut his eyes tight and began to play. For all I know he played an original tune, not as easy as Roadhouse Blues but a simple melody that froze the room. What follows is a snippet of that afternoon, unedited, a little messy, and exactly what it felt like.
Frank: (harmonica)
Gwen: Wow!
Dom: Oh wait, you gotta do one more riff. I have to take a picture.
Frank: (harmonica, same tune)
Dom: You’re really good, how’d you learn to play?
Duane: Yeah yeah, it’s only because I taught him how to play it.
Frank: Tell them the real story of how that shit happened, man. Just keep it real. We were down at the –
Duane: We were down at City Hall. We were doing a camp out at City Hall. And I broke out my harmonica and started playing, and he was like, “Man, I’d like to learn how to play like that.” So I told him I’d teach him, make him a pro… What? Say it didn’t happen like that?
Frank: That’s so bullshit. The first time I ever picked up a harmonica, ever-
Duane: Was at City Hall!
Frank: It was at City Hall, I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing and-
Duane: I know and I taught you how to play!
Frank: I wanted to play and so I just started fucking playing, I just tried and it sounded like that. Just started playing like this right off the bat. Really, and I didn’t think it sounded good at all.
Dom: What?
Gwen: Really?
Frank: I kid you not, I thought I sounded stupid.
Gwen: That’s actually unbelievable!
Frank: I thought I sounded so stupid. I really did, I was like “Oh I’m done with this, it’s bad. I’m usually good at everything.”
Dom: Were they telling you that you were good?
Frank: Everyone kept trying to tell me, “You sound great, you sound amazing!” Even this guy *points to Duane*
He kept telling me to play. I was like, “Ehh nah I’m not good at it.”
Dom: So he just picked it up and started playing like that, that’s impressive.
Duane: He’s such a liar. Bullshit. He knows I taught him how to play.
Frank: I’m not making it up, you going to beat me up with your strong hand? Look out baby, hold me back.
Duane: He just doesn’t want to give up our secrets, I taught him.
Frank: That was a while ago. I’ve known you longer than I’ve been working at Street Roots, Duane. That’s crazy. Since fucking greenhouse.
Duane: I know. That’s insanity. And as long as you tried to get me to work here with you. You did try for almost twenty years!
Frank: Yeah. Damn. I would tell him every day: “Come on dude, just come work.” And he’d be like, “Nah, next time”
Duane: All it took was the right look, and you didn’t have it, Frank.
Dom: Ouch.
Sadie: Are we supposed to be working on our covers?
Gwen: You guys could do your cover or write in your books, it’s up to you.
Sadie: I think I want to do my cover with no binding.
Gwen: Oh you want to keep it how it is, we can hole punch it and tie it with string?
Sadie: I like that. Let’s do that.
Gwen: Okay, so I can do two holes on the side. And then you can choose a string and tie it together. I did it like this, I folded these two over, and then cut it barely, and then you have to get the double-sided tape right on the edge.
Frank: That looks cool.
Dom: It could look cool if you decorate both sides too.
Sadie: I want to make sure I get it right in my book, I suffer from not paying attention sometimes, your names are Gwen and Dom right?
Frank: Yeah Gwen and Dom, Gwen like Spider-Man.
Gwen: Yup.
Frank: Are you a Spider-Man fan? Gwen Stacy. Is a Spider-Man character.
Dom: Oh yeah, she is a Spider-Man character.
Frank: That’s how I remember the name Gwen, Gwen Stacy from Spider-man, maybe that’ll help.
Gwen: Or like Gwen Stefani.
Sadie: Gwen Stefani, yeah. I like that more. I’m like— Gwen Stacy? I’ve never heard of this person.
Frank: You’re like “Who the fuck is Gwen Stacy?” I guess I’m a—I’m a nerd. Yeah, I’m a nerd. But how do y’all not know Gwen Stacy. She was Spider-Man’s first love. Before what’s her name?
Gwen: Mary-Jane?
Frank: Yes, Mary-Jane
Dom: Isn’t Gwen Stacy the one that fell?
Frank: Ahh yeah she did.
Gwen: Wait, what happened to her?
Dom: You never read the story or seen the movie?
Gwen: No.
Frank: His first love and she knows he’s Spider-Man. She’s always caught in the middle of his fights. Okay, so one time, she falls from a building. Snaps her neck or something, or hits her head.
Dom: He saves her almost though right?
Frank: He almost does. His web reaches her, but she still dies.
Sadie: She should’ve aimed for the bushes.
Frank: Wow, shut up (laughs)
Duane: Am I able to put some poetry in this. I have a poem but I can’t write it.
Gwen: Yes of course, I can maybe write it in there for you.
Duane: Okay, record this.
Dom: It’s still recording.
Duane: So we’re talking about the experience of the poor and the rich. As I’m asking them if they want to buy a paper so we can support ourselves and feed ourselves, they don’t realize we’re the working class just like them. They look at us like we’re nothing, they walk around us scared to death of what we’re not going to do to them. It doesn’t hurt me like it hurts others because I’ve experienced so much of it in my life, being poor and homeless and in need a lot of the time. Broken, walking, or so. Truth is, we aren’t out to hurt you, you act like we’re hurting you when you’re really hurting us.
Gwen: That was good, yeah I can write that in your book.
Duane: Could you also do five covers for my books? I got five poetry books.
Gwen: I can’t today just ’cause we’re not gonna have time. But maybe next week we can start on that project?
Duane: Wait, oh I gotta go. What time is it?
Gwen: It’s 1:10.
Duane: Oh, I’m late.
Gwen: You’re late? Okay. Come back next week and hopefully we will have your photos by then. Fingers crossed.
Duane: Okay. You said it’s 1:08? Oh man, I’m late. Oh, Frank’s fault again.
Frank: It’s always Frank’s fault.
Duane: Yeah, just like Frank. Making me late. It’s okay. Frankly, frankly.
Frank: Frankly— frankly it’s okay.
Dom: Be frank he has to go, Frank.
Duane: Oh just Frank saying, Frankly saying Frank. Can I be frank with you right now, Frank?
Is that a frank hotdog?
Gwen: A frank dog?
Duane: Just wanna be frank with you right now.
Sadie: Lets stop.
Gwen: Yes please.
Dom: Oh I got a feeling you’re late everywhere you go, Duane.
Duane: Hi, you can call me Late
Gwen: Bye Duane. Have a good week.
Duane: I will. Bye.
Domenic Toliver is an interdisciplinary artist and educator working across film, photography, performance, and socially engaged art. His practice emerges through dialogue, where responding to people, what’s said and unsaid, becomes a creative act in itself. He approaches his work as an ongoing process of questioning rather than seeking fixed answers, embracing change as both material and method. For him, life itself is a form of art—fluid, participatory, and relational.
Frank, Sadie, and Duane are Street Roots vendors and Artists that frequent a weekly photography/art workshop to collaborate with my partner Gwen Hoeffgen and I at the Streets Roots. Their works span poetry, photography, performance, drawing, and much more. Their photos and stories were presented and exhibited at Blue Sky Gallery for the December 2025 Community art wall showcase.
Gwen Hoeffgen is a visual and social practice artist who currently investigates the physicality of emotional experiences, and how those experiences live within the body waiting to be released. After receiving her bachelor’s degree in psychology, she worked as a social worker in the mental health, addiction, and cognitive health fields, and then received her MA in Drawing at Paris College of Art. Currently, as an Art and Social Practice MFA student at Portland State University, she use mediums of painting, drawing, photography, sound, and conversation to explore how we find stories within pieces, creases, breaks, and bends.